You cannot redistribute wealth that is never created

{"contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"rob-neill"}

Ban on hedge fund oil investments considered

With pump prices holding above $4-a-gallon, there is no shortage of proposals from Capitol Hill about how to address speculation in oil markets.

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{"commentId":2004375,"authorDomain":"rob-neill"}

Can government effectively manage gas prices?

{"commentId":2004375,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"rob-neill"}
    Reply#1 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:33 PM EDT
    {"commentId":2005365,"authorDomain":"pmelse"}

    This is great news! I've been saying this for months and it's about time Congress gets on the ball.

    {"commentId":2005365,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"pmelse"}
      Reply#2 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:19 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":2005457,"authorDomain":"dennis-d"}

      I don't beleive it's a matter of the government managing the price of gas, as much as how it allows something as important to the operation of our economy as oil is, to be traded on the open market. If we didn't realize before, we should realize now, that the price of fuel affects every single thing that exist in this economy. Letting traders buy and sell it like its corn or soybean futures is simply ludicrous. Not to diminish the importance of those commodities, but the average american can adjust to not having those products, not so with gasoline. School districts need gas for buses, the trucks that haul the soybeans need gas, people need fuel to get to work or whatever. Not everywhere is like Wall Street, some places have no mass transit. I beleive at this point, most Americans have cut their gas usage to the bear minimum, I know I have. It's obvious that there is no moral value when it comes to making money now days, so if that is the case then the only hope for the average Joe is for some type of regulation to occur. You should post the question; Name one thing that has been deregulated since the Reagan era that has turned out to be good for the middle class?

      {"commentId":2005457,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"dennis-d"}
        Reply#3 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:30 PM EDT
        {"commentId":2005649,"authorDomain":"JCurry"}

        Most of this trading in so-called "derivatives" contracts for commodities seem like no more than gambling. Hedging, gambling; its really all the same thing. No one really delivers or takes possession on these contracts. And the general public are the losers. As we just saw with the subprime mortgage mess, speculation is driving up the price of fuel for everyone. We can only hope that oil prices are the next bubble that will burst. Then the SOB's who have been driving up prices will take their losses! It seems obvious that some regulation is needed here, too. However, the regulation should be for all investors, not just hedge funds and institutional investors. If these contract are bad for one type of investor, they are bad for all.

        {"commentId":2005649,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"JCurry"}
          Reply#4 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
          {"commentId":2005715,"authorDomain":"bsoltys"}

          We complain that China and India are now utilizing far more oil therefore driving up the price for crude
          China and India are very big places. It is hard to believe there is no oil there. Have the major oil companies ever made an effort to explore for oil in either of those countries? It certainly would take a
          lot of pressure off the current supply if these two increasingly large users could become increasingly large producers.

          {"commentId":2005715,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"bsoltys"}
          • 1 vote
          Reply#5 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:02 PM EDT
          {"commentId":2015672,"authorDomain":"dongts"}

          I'm quite sure China and India have oil and with all the billions the oil company's are making, they should drill and put up refineries too. The mid east oil and our oil are not enough for China alone. Besides; lest we not forget that China is a communist country. Let them drill for oil themselves. When you have two countries, China with over 2 billion and India with over 1 billion, it seems like us with 300 thousand are sure getting the short stick because they want to over populate.

          {"commentId":2015672,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"dongts"}
            #5.1 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:52 PM EDT
            Reply
            {"commentId":2005736,"authorDomain":"rbennett-1"}

            I am on the verge of losing my trucking co. that I spent 30 odd years building because I can't pass on my fuel cost as fast as it rises. I have 35 hard working employees that will be looking for a job because these funds are driving up oil as a hedge against inflation for a pension fund for God's sake.

            {"commentId":2005736,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"rbennett-1"}
              Reply#6 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:04 PM EDT
              {"commentId":2006754,"authorDomain":"marksiever"}

              I find it ironic that this story comes out on the very day the FBI sting arrested so many people who perpetrated the mortgage crisis in this country. So then you read about insiders who are trading these commodities and how the reduced liquidity will actually RAISE prices. Get real, Joker, the Feds are coming after you next when they can gather the evidence to see how you manipulated the prices. Just like the group in Atlanta that perpetrated the kiting scam with a condominium, the people buying these contracts never intend to take delivery of the product. Contracts and options on commodities are there to reduce risks for those who actually produce and/or sell the underlying commodity. Yes, there needs to be added liquidity by people who watch the underlying fundamentals of the market and make purchase decisions on that. Currently, all we hear are the people making $Billions telling us the fundamentals support their ponzi scheme that's raping the entire globe.

              {"commentId":2006754,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"marksiever"}
                Reply#7 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:34 PM EDT
                {"commentId":2006783,"authorDomain":"Peter17"}

                Be careful what you wish for. 20 years ago the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax) sounded like a great idea. Turns out to be one of the worst tax programs ever implemented by congress and now they can't figure out how to get rid of it.

                {"commentId":2006783,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"Peter17"}
                  Reply#8 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:37 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":2006940,"authorDomain":"mightyblogger"}

                  Well regulation was bound to happen, from the article:

                  The latest plan circulating in Congress would ban large institutional investors from trading commodities altogether.

                  It's time to look at the various market segments and decide which are crucial to national and world interests. Top of the list: food and energy. In our current world we can't live without either. We can trim down on their use, but we need food to survive and energy to produce the food.

                  I honestly feel our market system shouldn't allow critical necessities to be governed by the bottom line.

                  {"commentId":2006940,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"mightyblogger"}
                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#9 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:59 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":2007071,"authorDomain":"marykeefer"}

                  Have a look at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission website. www.cftc.gov. They have in the news section a letter from ICE Clear Europe Ltd. requesting to allow them to have commodities traded on their ICE board regulated by the UK Financial Services. The CFTC is actually putting this request out for public opinion. First - this LAW about reporting on trades on this board was just passed by Congress with the Farm Bill. It only took eight years to close the "Enron Loophole" as it has been called. The UK Financial Services do not have the ability to regulate electronic trades at this time. The man who heads up the CFTC is none other than Walter Lukken, lawyer and derivatives & commodities expert. Oh, wait a minute, he is also the person who was working for Senator Lugar when the Senator co-sponsored the original Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000 which got us into all this trouble with mortgages, credt and commodities in the first place. This man (Lukken)has the nerve to try to go around the law by offering this request up to public opinion. Better yet - the email does not work as listed at the bottom of the public opinion request. I actually called the CFTC office and spoke to one of their "agents". When I questioned why they would offer this request for an exemption from the LAW - the agent barked out "put it in writing" and hung up on me. I have contacted the Washington State Congresswoman with this information and quite a few others. There have been many letters of exemption granted to companies by the CFTC.......who and what are they allowing to circumvent the law? Why don't you all call and ask them? Be prepared for rudeness.

                  {"commentId":2007071,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"marykeefer"}
                    Reply#10 - Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:16 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":2008511,"authorDomain":"webers"}

                    It's great that Congress may enact a ban or regulates the commodity markets. The Hedge funds and speculators are effectively sending our economy as well as the worlds
                    economy into a recession. I can only hope that these hedge fund managers and speculators
                    are pursued and arrested by the Feds for manipulating the markets. There is no shortage of Oil
                    and the supply and demand excuse is false.

                    {"commentId":2008511,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"webers"}
                      Reply#11 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:04 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":2009621,"authorDomain":"don-blickle"}

                      Analysts said intervention by Washington could actually push commodity prices higher. That's because investment funds add liquidity to the market, helping oil producers and consumers buy and sell freely rather than horde scarce supplies.

                      These are the same crooks that brought liquidity to the real estate market aren't they??? What a crock!!!!!

                      {"commentId":2009621,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"don-blickle"}
                        Reply#12 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:10 AM EDT
                        {"commentId":2010316,"authorDomain":"kim3"}

                        I don't think we need intervention from Washington yet. I think the problem needs to be looked at from a consumption perspective. How many SUV's are we still putting on the road, instead of more economical alternatives? If we would look at how SUV's are financed - we would find, in many instances, people are taking out jumbo car loans similar to the jumbo house loans that have wrecked our economy thus far. Even though gas has gone up, in current economic conditions, these loans are not able to be refinanced or payed off so the consumer can buy a more economical vehicle Consumption really isn't going down that way. Putting this on commodities trading it really jumping the gun a little, part of the the problem is still loose lending standards that reached the automotive industry in the age of free credit for all. If jumbo loans weren't being handed out for large SUV's, trucks, Vans, there would be less consumption and more time to develop alternatives.

                        {"commentId":2010316,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"kim3"}
                          Reply#13 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:16 AM EDT
                          {"commentId":2010650,"authorDomain":"feman185"}
                          feman185Deleted
                          {"commentId":2012061,"authorDomain":"whitley99"}

                          Folks... we are paying higher gas because we are at war with a middle east country and they have learned that they cannot beat us on the war front but they can hurt us in the money arena.... This about it ever since we went to war our gas has gone up. 911 they went after our money market and failed to make a huge impact now they know to go for the oil. Wake up Americans.....

                          {"commentId":2012061,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"whitley99"}
                            Reply#15 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:22 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":2023811,"authorDomain":"jmullins1969"}

                            This is the republican excuse for failed speculator regulation. Try reading the email ahead of yours and you'll see exactly why the prices are at a 65% bubble. the solution is simple if you actually understand the problem.

                            {"commentId":2023811,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"jmullins1969"}
                              #15.1 - Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:33 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              {"commentId":2013394,"authorDomain":"jscooper-1"}

                              Get the speculators out of the "all" the energy markets, not only have they screwed us on oil, they plan the same for every alternative fuel that comes to the market. Phil Graham (along with his wife and the rest of his crew of lobbyists) has ruined our economy for the sake of their own greed, Both of the Bushes allowed these speculators into the markets which has gotten us into this mess, and and Bill Clinton did nothing to stop them when he got into office. Dick Chaney once said that if we didn't allow speculators into the markets, that we would end up paying over $4.00 a gallon for gas. John McSame and his "Loyal Lobbyists" are looking to take us further down this road, what ever fills their pockets. again.

                              {"commentId":2013394,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"jscooper-1"}
                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#16 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:45 PM EDT
                              {"commentId":2013449,"authorDomain":"excellent1"}

                              The silicone valley in California has over 400 billionares.There are alot of others throughout the USA.I'm retired and get 325 dollars a wk.No one will ever get me to believe that the multi millionares or the Billionares really care about the poor or fixed income people of this country or any other.the rich get richer and the rest of us get SH.. on.

                              {"commentId":2013449,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"excellent1"}
                                Reply#17 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:51 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":2014252,"authorDomain":"wtboy-2000"}

                                I've been saying for years that we needed to stop all this agenda based market manipulation.

                                {"commentId":2014252,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"wtboy-2000"}
                                  Reply#18 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:25 PM EDT
                                  {"commentId":2014303,"authorDomain":"marykeefer"}

                                  Do you really believe this Government under Bush/Cheney is doing it's job at the CFTC? Do you think they are really looking at who is doing the trading - manipulation in oil and other commodities? Mr. Walter Lukken, who is presently the Chairman of the Commodities Futures Trading Commission is, according to his own bio on the CFTC website, the same Walter Lukkens who worked with Senator Lugar helping to design, write and get passed the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000 or "the Enron Loophole" legislation which led America into the dire situtions we have had with mortgage, credit and commodities. June 17 in the news section of the CFTC's website(www:cftc.gov)they requested a public opinion on a request from ICE Clear Europe. This is the biggest trading board owner around with sites in Chicago, Canada, New York and London. The request was for ICE to be allowed to have the UK Financial Services commission be the gatherer of their information. 1. Why would we help ICE circumvent the closure of the Enron Loophole by doing this? UK Finanacial does not have the expertise pr staffing to cover the electronic trades. 2. Why would the CFTC put something like this up for a public opinion. There should be no opinion involved - just follow the LAW. I believe that the CFTC Commission is corrupt and looking for ways around the changes in the law to help out the people who are doing us the most harm. When I called the Commission to voice my opinion - the email did not function on this request for public opinion - I was hung up on by their agent after telling them what I was calling about. Well, if you can't gather publc opinion, or don't want to; then obviously you have already made up your mind to grant ICE another exemption so that they may continue to trade without the American people knowing what is going on. ICE went public in 2006 with backing from GOldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. These two continue to own a good sized share in ICE and are trading their hedge funds without supervision through them. WHY SHOULD WE ALLOW THIS! Sorry for yelling. We are being had, manipulated and lied to by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Another little clue: Goldman Sachs has recently bought a 1/3 interest in the Commodities Trading Board in Dubai. Why does Secretary of the Treasury Paulson want to take over more control. This guy came from Goldman Sachs as chief officer into the Treasury Department. He was given $63 million dollars in bonus from Goldman Sachs the same year. Who is he really helping? Not you or me.

                                  {"commentId":2014303,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"marykeefer"}
                                    Reply#19 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:33 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":2015592,"authorDomain":"dongts"}

                                    Sure the government can control the oil. All they have to do is federalize the oil in this country and all the money hungry futures traders would lose their money. Sounds great to me. With airlines going bankrupt and everyone loosing jobs, something has to be done. I also get real mad at the people who say we should be like Canada and Europe with their prices. They eventually don't know that their government medical and some other programs comes from the taxes on their gas. Our gas prices on the other hand, are only going into filthy rich guys pocket and laughing all the way to the bank. I call the future trader a bunch for leeches, sucking off all the people in the world and putting a big hurt on everyone and not caring. I would like one of the s o b's come out in the public and explain the reasoning behind what is going on. Knowing full well that all it is, is the ability to get richer at the expense of everyone and the poor people who can hardly get by as it is. We have people in this country taking $10.00 and hour just to keep their jobs. With the price of gas is really putting a hurt on them.

                                    {"commentId":2015592,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"dongts"}
                                      Reply#20 - Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:34 PM EDT
                                      {"commentId":2018665,"authorDomain":"mw-joe"}

                                      Deregulation done in 2000-04 has done more damage to this country than anyone realizes. It's past time to repeal these disgusting laws. Speculation in commodity markets does nothing but provide paper wealth at the expense of middle income and poor people. You can thank republicans and their greedy economic theories of lies.

                                      {"commentId":2018665,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"mw-joe"}
                                        Reply#21 - Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:53 PM EDT
                                        {"commentId":2019592,"authorDomain":"cspeaker"}

                                        All that has to happen to remove speculation from the energy market is to not allow changing positions (day trading), that is, if you buy a futures contract you have to take delivery. If you sell a futures contract you must deliver ... If you can't or require someone else to deliver or take delivery for you, there would be a huge price penalty. This would eliminate the speculators and still allow real sellers and buyers to hedge their position like the commodity market was originally designed to do. Originally, this was a good thing.

                                        By the way, can anyone explain why Natural Gas prices have followed Oil? Other than, because Big Oil has learned how to manipulate the price with the commodity market.

                                        Sounds like Enron all over again.

                                        {"commentId":2019592,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"cspeaker"}
                                          Reply#22 - Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:17 PM EDT
                                          {"commentId":2047449,"authorDomain":"noscon"}

                                          "If the market is allowed to run its course, industry will respond to natural incentives and develop alternatives to oil" Craig Pirrong said in the article. Mr Pirrong is either an eternal optimist or he must have been living in Pluto. Crude oil no longer responds to the economic principle off demand and supply (the US Fed actions should have clarified that by now). Speculation may not be the main culprit
                                          of our current economic woes, but regulating it may help mitigate some of the current price hikes in crude oil. "Speculation is Gambling" pure and simple and the last time I checked, it had high risks (been born by consumers) and high rewards (gained by speculators). According to "guesstimates" speculation may be responsible for up to 40% of the current price of crude oil. Congress please act now before we all start looking at the good old days of $4/gallon gas.

                                          {"commentId":2047449,"threadId":"293886","contentId":"1591611","authorDomain":"noscon"}
                                            Reply#23 - Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:32 PM EDT
                                            {"commentId":2097822,"authorDomain":"luckyrock"}
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